Posts by Sea Breeze

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

It sounds like you are willing to entertain any possibility EXCEPT the one that Jesus clearly stated; and that is: when they killed his body he would resurrect his own body.... while he was still dead.

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2

God says if we believe Jesus' body wasn't raised from the dead ... "we are still in our sins".

Does that concern you ?

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

So you think Jesus’ body went back to the ground?

Where? The tomb was empty.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

EP,

Your belief that Jesus' body was simply materialized and not his own body is identical to the WT position where his body was not resurrected, but was "disovled into gasses". Do you believe that too? If not, what happened to Jesus body if it was not resurrected?

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2

Do you think it is a bad bet to contradict Jesus, especially in lifght of Paul's warnings about the implications of such a position?

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

EP,

In this most famous prophecy, Jesus announced that while dead, he would resurrect his own body from the dead.

So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2

Did Jesus lie?

Saying scriptures are "symbolic" is the same as ripping out parts of the bible that don't agree with certain viewpoints. It is an easy way to try and get the scriptures to agree while holding on to cherished assumptions.

It takes effort to dig out the truth that allows the scriptures to speak for themselves in harmony. "Spiritualizing" verses is similar to "hand waving" in argumentation. It has pagued Christianity since the first century gnostics became interested in Christianity.

One of the things that astonished me in my journey after getting saved was just how many things in the bible were literal and not symbolic, figurative, or metaphorical.

Anyway, I don't expect you to give up all your symbolic interpretation of scripture in just one discussion. Just know that this is a major topic of discussion in the bible as Paul shows in Corinthians and each generation of Christians therefter has had to deal with - literal vs. symbolic interpretation, especially in new believers.

Here is a fuller discussion on why the bodily resurrection of Jesus is so important.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

Scripture says that we are soul, body and spirit, explicitly in two places. The martyred souls under the altar in Rev. 6: 9-11 are just that.... souls. They have not been resurrected to spirit life. They are conscious dead souls, who feel, remember, speak and think just like those who are alive. They are in heaven, awaiting their resurrection.

Below is a discussion on what happens to Christians who are resurrected with their soul, body and soul in tact....... in the future. It is from GotQuestions.org.

The term spiritual body seems to be an oxymoron. A basic point to be made, based on the term, is that the resurrection body cannot be wholly spiritual; otherwise, it could not be a “body.” It is a human body, but there is something different about it, as Paul explains in context.

Taking in the whole of 1 Corinthians 15, we have the following descriptions of the body we have now versus the future resurrected body:

earthly vs. heavenly (verse 40)
perishable vs. imperishable (verse 42)
dishonorable vs. glorified (verse 43)
subject to weakness vs. raised in power (verse 43)
natural vs. spiritual (verse 44)
bearing Adam’s image vs. bearing Christ’s image (verse 49)
mortal vs. immortal (verse 53)

All the way through the text, the word body is used.

Earlier in the chapter, Paul lays the foundation for his discussion of the spiritual body: “Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another” (1 Corinthians 15:39).

Note the illustration of differing kinds of flesh:

• fish have a body perfectly suited for their life in the water
• birds have a body perfectly suited for flying through the air
• animals have a body perfectly suited for their needs in the animal kingdom
• people have a body perfectly suited for life on this earthly plane

So, here’s Paul’s point: after the resurrection, we will have a body perfectly suited for life in heaven...[and/or earth]. The “spiritual body” will be made of flesh (like Jesus’ body is), but a different kind of flesh than what we have now.

The passage continues: “There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor” (1 Corinthians 15:40–41). So, we can also say that the resurrection body—the spiritual body—will have a different “splendor” than our earthly, natural body.

The spiritual body is suited to eternal life. It is not subject to decay or death; it will not be inconvenienced by any of the physical functions necessary for life here and now. The spiritual body will be a real body, but in a different mode of being. It will be an upgrade: at the resurrection, our bodies will go from Version 1.0 to Version 2.0. Better yet, to extend Paul’s illustration in 1 Corinthians 15:39, our bodies now are the “seed”; our bodies then will be the blossom. Just as a poppy is more glorious than the seed from which it came, the spiritual body will be more glorious than the physical body that died.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

Do you believe in a literal interpretation of the bible unless obvious literary devices are used?

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

So were you a JW for a while? If so, how long?

2

Creepy WT Video Seems to Make the 144K Our Savior

by Sea Breeze in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hcyj279vek&ab_channel=witnessforjesus.

Sea Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hCYj279vek&ab_channel=WitnessForJesus

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

Jesus already showed that he can materialize a body.

@EasyPrompt

One of the things that makes it so hard to integrate into Christianity after being a JW is undoing the dozens of redefinitions that were installed in our heads by the indoctrination processes of the WT.

I was a 4th generation JW, now an active church member and serve on the board of directors of a K-12 Christian Academy.

I have found a good old fashioned dictionary from the 1800's to be invaluable in deconstructing WT indoctrination.

This may come as a shock to you (it did for me) ; but there is no such thing in the bible as:

1. Being Resurrected to Spirit Life

2. Jesus materializing a body

The basic meaning of "resurrection" is to rise again. When a person dies, his body falls, lies down, & appears to be sleeping. A resurrection occurs when his body does just the opposite: stands up fully animated and awake.

RESURREC'TION, noun s as z. [Latin resurrectus, resurgo; re and surgo, to rise.]
A rising again; - Webster 1828 Dictionary

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

True, Jesus' body was glorified in that is was equipped with power to rise to heaven, to appear in rooms with opening a door, and so forth. But, it was still his body that he died in that was raised. Otherwise, a resurrection did not occur. And if a resurrection did not occur, then the Apostle Paul makes clear that there are bigger doctrinal problems:

if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ... if Christ be not raised, ...ye are yet in your sins. - 1 Cor. 15

Foundational, bedrock Christian doctrine from the earliest eye witness testimony is that Jesus rose from the dead (was resurrrected) in his OWN BODY.

28

Did God know Adam and Eve will Sin? - JW perspective

by bioflex in

i read about this topic sometime ago in one awake mag (cant rememer which one).

and from the jw perspective, he didnt know which means it took him by suprise or which makes it seem god is not as almighty as we would believe.

this is their reasoning.. http://www.watchtower.org/e/20110101a/article_01.htm.

Sea Breeze

A better question might be why did god let a powerful angel known as Satan go to the Garden and tempt those weak human mortals ?

The temptation to disobey God would eventually be insitgated by someone. It doesn't really matter who in my opinion. God allowed it because he loves us and wants to see us live free. It offered him the opportunity to place a certain value on human life by dramatically displaying the price of redemption that he was willing to pay.

How much is something worth? Whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Many people bring objects to Antiques Roadshow thinking that their object only has modest value. When they learn THAT EXPERTS are willing to pay big money for it; it changes EVERYTHING.

Since, we now know what we are worth, we now have context, a benchmark, a scale to see the enormity of what being made in the image of God really means:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.